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Post by Admin on Apr 13, 2016 0:16:11 GMT -5
So the boons are confusing and spammy and whatnot. What do you guys want to do with the boons that are floating around from dead people, people that will likely not be coming back any time soon and the like? Since we have reopened and next of kins aren't logged...anywhere... what do you want to do with them? Please comment below your thoughts and thank you.
I.e. River is dead, her next of kin is likely dead or mia, and allll these people who have boons owed to or owed from River... what to do with them?
Start fresh and wipe them or let it remain in the queue for reasons unknown? or other possibilities...
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groth
Tasty Mortal
Posts: 9 
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Post by groth on Apr 13, 2016 2:28:15 GMT -5
Mortimer has the next of kin document.
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Post by lordbelh on Apr 13, 2016 7:51:57 GMT -5
Dead Kindred should be wiped. As far as I recall, next of kin never inherited boons (or debts, as it would have to be, too). Don't start wiping MIA folk, though! They might come back  ETA: It seems +boons/credit and +boons/debt have not been turned on, which means one cant really see all of the boons. - David's player. |
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Post by jaeger on Apr 13, 2016 9:26:45 GMT -5
There is a document somewhere outlining how boon transfer works. When Vireo killed Yoshiko, ALL Yoshiko's boons transferred to Vireo. Vireo was then torpor'd and the Prisci Council condemned her to un-ending torpor. The Circle was outraged, because Yoshiko was their Primogen. Casper took on all of Vireo's boons in order to use Vireo for a Circle Sacrifice. So there is precedent in game for this. Somewhere along the way, the boon transfer document disappeared off the wiki.
The transferring of boons acts as a stop gap to help prevent kindred from killing each other. You have to seriously WANT to kill a vampire with such great extent that you are willing to take on every boon they owe to people. It makes you think twice before just slaughtering another kindred. Also, if someone owes you a boon, you want to protect them and keep them safe, because that is favors and tasks you can cash in on later. Otherwise, if they die, you have no clue who will be owing you a boon. (ie. Let's say a Primogen owes you a minor boon... that is worth more than Nobody Charlie owing you a minor boon.)
Another reason to continue the transferring of boons is this: Without it, Bob racks up a huge debt against Jack. Bob kills Jack. Debt disappears... no consequences. With the transferring of debt, Bob is less likely to kill Jack, because then Bob will owe Jack's next of kin all that debt, PLUS Bob now owes Peter, Sue, and Paul, because he took on Jack's debt.
Transferring boons to the next of kin for those dead kindred is a good thing.
The MIA kindred likely just need to stay until after you're sure they are not coming back. They could be recorded off screen (on the forums), taken off the game, then re-added if that player returns.
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Post by gregory on Apr 13, 2016 10:20:26 GMT -5
I agree with Jaeger
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Post by Nessa on Apr 13, 2016 16:10:31 GMT -5
Boons should be wiped. Let everything start over. I say this because so much changed from before to now. Ie - Nessa owes a boon to someone for something that can not be completed now. Or maybe it can, but we don't know since we don't know since we don't know who is coming back.
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Post by PhinnyFace on Apr 14, 2016 0:42:40 GMT -5
If there's a guarantee the bits are gone, I say eliminate the boons. We can say they died with no next of kin. We can still act like we held debt over the departed, but honestly... this is just a function of keeping +boons tidy. I'd say, if we're not sure if someone is coming back, keep the boons. Once that player makes it known the character is abandoned, well, make that an irrevocable decision and clean up the boons, I say.
There is precedent for this happening. Phin held boons over Steele and Isrieal for example, and both disappeared (at least some boons owed by each) disappeared with the deaths/removals of those characters.
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Post by PhinnyFace on Apr 14, 2016 0:44:21 GMT -5
I certainly don't think we should wipe all boons... those are debts that accumulated, for the most part, based on performances done. The same returning characters still benefited. The debt should still remain - to wipe it with a change in Praxis goes against the whole vampire theme.
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Post by jaeger on Apr 14, 2016 11:16:58 GMT -5
Just for OOC tidiness sake: Create a forum board here to keep track of who owes how much to whom, then clear those out on the game. If they come back, re-add them. If they don't, then we are not having to scroll through spam of spam on the game. Like Phin said, we can say they had no next of kin, or they are put into torpor (like Kylie). You have to think long range with vampires. If one is sentenced to torpor for 50 years, they will still owe those boons when they wake (just clear them out of the code and mark them on a forum); even if they will no longer have bearing on the game.
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groth
Tasty Mortal
Posts: 9
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Post by groth on Apr 15, 2016 9:08:57 GMT -5
Iirc correctly Oukranos already coded in a way to hide inactive boons from showing on the list. I could ask him.
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Post by Baptiste on Apr 17, 2016 15:03:16 GMT -5
I have a next of kin document updated to the time the game closed, also. I don't think Mortimer's is completely updated.
From my perspective, boons are quite helpful -- and unless someone is dead, I wouldn't wipe them. We never know when we will see a new character again.
Still, wiping boons is code-easy. Just submit a +boon/callin job and your friendly neighborhood Harpies can wipe them, as can the Prince. I've done that many times!
B
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Post by kougyoku on Apr 20, 2016 17:21:25 GMT -5
BOONS: Oh what should we do? Let's open a can o' worms. So saw a job regarding boon deletion.. Decided to involve the person the player owned the Boon to. We'll call these players Jack and Jill. So Jill owes Jack 1x Major Boon from July 2015. I query and would like to know the reason is, more than just "It should be removed". It sparked an interesting line of discussion with Jack regarding Boons as a whole. Jack Pages, "....but I can't remember if there was something else that went on with it [boons]. There are a lot of boons that weren't properly cleared, especially near the end." You paged Jack with 'With the way this game was at the end, I don't doubt it.' Jack pages: I don't have a -massive- objection to it, but I'd like to know what her reasoning is more than 'it should be removed' honestly..or just say that all boons from before are gone might be a better idea. Jack pages: I just know that there are a -lot- of super shady boons on the system from a time when someone was playing too many official positions and controlling the boon system at the same time. I can prove that the 1 major boon that could pose a problem to me has been paid already, because I never clean my @mails out. << Mail Forwarded and redacted to Staff Eyes Only >> kingsmouth.boards.net/thread/396/boons |
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Post by roberta on Apr 20, 2016 19:36:15 GMT -5
Wipe boons. Clean Slate for all, IMO.
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Post by lordbelh on Apr 21, 2016 8:47:27 GMT -5
Benefits were often had for boons, benefits that still exist in the game. I don't think they should be wiped. Two characters made an agreement, and you only owe boons if you actually agreed to owe one. If the characters are still on the game, the boons should still be in play.
ETA: If any boons were iffy, OOC code issues (such as having been called in by it was never inputted) or whatnot, then adjudicate those. I mean, most players are pretty honest even if their characters are scheming bastards.
ETA: ICly iffy boons are just something people should live with (or contest IC once Harpies come online), because frankly, Vampire are Icly iffy as all hell.
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Post by Admin on Apr 21, 2016 23:17:47 GMT -5
What if boons from icly dead/mia people (with no next of kin or mia next of kin) are deleted and stored on the staff forum boards?
I won't want to delete all boons because obviously some of us still have things lingering over our heads that make our own rp great.
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